Where does the soul go?

I got into another one of these theological conversations with the boys... I admit, I enjoy them. At dinner on Thursday, Jordan was talking about what he sang in choir that day, and Aaron hadn't heard the story of Away in a Manger so we had to tell it to him. He thought it was hilarious: asleep in the hay! Ha! However, I felt a little incomplete telling these stories without also explaining the significance that they have for people, so this time I said how the baby Jesus is so special to Christian people, that part of the story is that even the stars in the sky were happy to see him be born. Aaron was very touched by that. Then I went on to try and explain why Jesus is special to Christian people, and man, I was out of my depth. I felt like I needed to keep it simple (these are five- and eight-year-old Jews, after all) and I was thinking on my feet, so I thought I'd just say that the Christian story is that Jesus helps you get into heaven and not go to hell. But my kids don't know what heaven and hell are. So I started by asking:

Me: What do you think happens when people die?
Aaron: We say goodbye to them.
Jordan: I think their soul goes out.
Rachel: I agree, we say goodbye to them. What do you mean, their soul goes out?
Jordan: At the moment people die I think their soul goes out of them. [He made a wiggly motion away from his chest.]
Rachel: Does it go somewhere?
Jordan: I don't know.
Rachel: I don't know either.
Jordan: I think maybe it goes to us, so that we remember them. I think maybe that is how we remember them.
Rachel: Wow. I think that is pretty great. I don't know what happens after people die, but I like your idea a lot.

And then I launched into this other part:

Rachel: Another story about what happens when people die is that there is a wonderful place called heaven, and your soul goes there when you die. I don't believe this story myself, but it is a story that is special to Christian people. One story is that heaven is up in the clouds.
Jordan: I don't think your soul goes up in the clouds.
Aaron: I don't think anyone goes up in the clouds unless there is a rocket ship. And then you go to space.
Jordan: And your soul wouldn't go in a rocket ship.
Rachel: I don't believe this story either, but some people like this story. Another part of this story is that your soul only goes to heaven if you are good and you do good things. If you do bad things, you go to another place called hell.
Aaron: If you do bad things you go there?
Rachel: That's the story.
Aaron: What is it like there?
Rachel: Supposedly it's full of fire and monsters and devils.

I was trying to be casual, but I think Aaron's imagination took him somewhere awful very fast, because his eyes got big and he started to tremble and blink back tears. I instantly regretted the whole conversation - now my poor baby is worried about going to hell!? Scrambling to get out of it, I said,

Rachel: Aaron Aaron I forgot to tell you that there is an important rule about who can never go to hell. Do you want to hear it?
Aaron [little voice shaking]: Yes?
Rachel: Children. Children can never go to hell.
Aaron: They can't?
Rachel: Right. Because children are not bad. Children are learning.
[There was a collective puff of relief. Both Aaron and Jordan looked very grateful to be hearing this piece of news and got out of their chairs.]
Rachel: Like if a little kid broke something, they didn't do it on purpose, they are just learning.
Jordan [standing up to explain]: Kids make mistakes. Kids don't mean to hurt anyone.
Aaron [waving his arms]: Like if a kid broke his brother's toy he didn't mean to do it, it just broke.

I even think this is true, isn't it? Innocent youths? I guess it depends on your convictions. Well, I hereby refuse to educate my kids about any religion that threatens to send little kids to hell. And it was time to change the subject.

Rachel: Right. Now heaven, on the other hand, the story is that heaven is this wonderful place where everything is good.
Jordan: Is everything made of candy?
Rachel: Actually they say the streets are made of gold.
Jordan: Wow!
Aaron: And what else?
Rachel: All your friends will be there, and all the people you love.
Aaron [dancing around the kitchen]: Emanuel will be there, and Finn, and Sean and Henry! [All of whom are alive and well, and of a variety of religious persuasions. Never mind.]

There followed a very excited and imaginative babbling about what heaven would be like. Both kids got so into it they pushed the dinner dishes out of the way and started drawing heaven. Aaron drew himself sitting on a cloud and wanted to know how to spell "Whee!" because it would be so fun.

Jordan drew this fascinating image:



Those are the streets of gold, and green fields, and "a giant portable box of candy." A friend pointed out that it is a crossroads, as well, which struck her as auspicious.

The conversation was really out of my hands by now, but I tried to cram through to my point, which was that the baby Jesus grew up into the man Jesus, who had a lot of very good ideas and instructions for how to live a good life, and that the Christian story that if you live the way that Jesus said, you would go to heaven. And that Christmas is Jesus's birthday, so songs like Away in the Manger are for saying that when Jesus was born it was very special. Amen.

Observed

Another parent reported the following sweetness to us, which she observed while dropping her kids off at the before-school program:

Jordan and Aaron were making their plan for where to play together. Jordan was told that because of staffing today, they couldn't accommodate younger siblings in the "big kid" area in the lunchroom -- seems that's something the boys have done together in the past. 

Aaron looked up at Jordan with silent, big, tear-rimmed eyes.

Jordan paused, then said he'd changed his mind and would prefer to stay in the portable with his brother. Unfortunately the staff said that for the same staffing reasons, today Jordan needed to go to the lunchroom.

Jordan gave Aaron a big hug and a reassuring pep talk about how they'd see each other again later at recess. And of course, the staff quickly engaged Aaron in some activity to take his mind off it.

As our friend's daughter and Jordan walked together to the lunch room, they discussed the pros and cons of the likely rainy day recess. Jordan said the main thing was that if it's rainy day start and recess, he won't get to see Aaron.